Digital Video Essentials Iso Torrent
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1. If your TV meets 91.73 % of DCI-P3(According to RTINGS.com) and you calibrate to that spec what do you think will happen when your TV tries to display the other 8.27% of the colors that it can’t display?
2. If you give the TV a fixed calibration based on DCI-P3 and the disc is rendered as REC.2020 are you going to clip all of the colors above DCI-P3?
3. You are supposed to calibrate REC.709 displays to 100 nits. What do you plan to calibrate your HDR display to?
4. Finally, if the display resets “some” of the settings back to their maximum values every time you insert a new disc are you going to perform your calibration every time before you watch a movie? If so how are you going to prevent it from resetting the settings when you remove the calibration disc?
As my questions demonstrate there really isn’t anyway to calibrate an HDR display to a specification unless that display exactly meets that specification. Currently only one HDR display exceeds DCI-P3(Vizio R65) and it exceeds it by so much you wouldn’t want to handicap it by calibrating to a spec so much lower than what it is capable of.
With HDR material we will all be forced to accept that the display knows its capabilities better than we do. There won’t be any HDR calibration discs like we have today. Instead there will be measurement discs. Those discs will demonstrate how much of the DCI-P3 or REC.2020 spectrum your display can show. They will also allow you to prove how dark and how bright your display can get with meters.
However, you won’t really be able to make adjustments based on the measurements you take like we do today. You actually don’t want to change those settings at all.
There is one HUGE fundamental difference in how HDR TVs work and how non HDR TVs work. With non-HDR TVs we calibrate them down to REC.709 because that is what the material is rendered to and all of our displays cover more than 100% of REC.709.
All HDR material is rendered to the REC.2020 specification which far exceeds what any consumer display can show for the foreseeable future. For the first time we have content that exceeds the capabilities of the display. With REC.709 almost all modern displays exceed it. Some even exceed it by a very wide margin.
With HDR displays almost none of them meet even the DCI-P3 spec and none meet REC.2020. Instead the TV uses the HDR headers to figure out what it has to do to render the content to the TV’s maximum capabilities. You wouldn’t want to change that so it renders to a spec lower than its maximum capabilities. You would be throwing away colors that you are paying for but not using.
In addition you can’t calibrate it to a spec that exceeds its capabilities because then you would clip the colors that it cannot display.
Ultimately, everyone will need to accept a new philosophy that the TV manufactures know the capabilities of these TVs better than we do. Everyone will have to trust that the manufactures are reading the HDR headers correctly and displaying the material to the maximum capabilities of the display. There will be measurement discs to help you demonstrate that but there won’t ever be calibration discs to help you calibrate to a specific specification.
Each HDR TV has its own unique set of specifications that it is capable of achieving and if the manufacturer has done everything right then the HDR TV will be capable of selecting the appropriate settings automatically to achieve its maximum possible capabilities with HDR material.
My real concern is that the adjustment controls on the HDR capable sets from 2015 and 2016 are not going to behave in a way necessary to get an 'accurate' HDR picture. How long did consumers suffer with rec709 sets without greyscale adjustments and even others that had adjustments but didn't function well enough to bring the picture to acceptable levels of accuracy.
I agree, and do also believe that HDR will require less adjustment. At least until we have sets with extra headroom in light output and color that will need to be tuned down(this may also never happen). https://www.smpte.org/sites/default/..-Ecosystem.pdf start on page 25 the samsung page is interesting refers to power consumption and APL. Damn california energy laws
I would love to see the day when everyone can buy a TV, set it to movie and KNOW they are getting the most accurate picture that set can deliver but I'm just to much or a realist to think HDR will usher in that kind or world. I do think there are more questions than answers right now. Hopefully soon industry leads like Spears and Munsil and Spectracal can start answering them in a way we can all understand. I don't think UltraHD is going to cause the need for calibration to go the way of the Dodo.
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei..est%20patterns
Also. a bit off query, see sspears' excerpt re current/upcoming scaling in his co-developed calibration disc, which AFAIK doesn't have motion rez test in 1080p Vol II, nor my Vol 1 version.
My current setup.
Recommended podcasts: The Next Picture Show, /filmcast, AV Rant.
2017 LG OLED and JVC RS4/5/600 basics. (Or custom HDR curves for JVC's.)
Thanks for responding, a 'less professional' thumb drive version would be ideal for myself and I'd prefer that to a disc based program any day.
Thanks.
In addition, how do you arrange for updates for prior purchasers in order for them to receive the newer content as more content is added?
That eases my mind and I'll be making my purchase shortly.
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post #1 of 20Old02-09-2016, 10:39 PM - Thread Starter
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I want a UHD calibration disk to go with my new K8500.
I know Joe Kane has a USB UHD essentials but its $100 and not on a disk. It would be nice to see Spears and Muslin UHD as well. This is probably asking a lot, as standard blu-rays calibration disks will work fine on an UHD set. It would be cool to have new patterns that trigger HDR so we can calibrate P3 color space.
I know Joe Kane has a USB UHD essentials but its $100 and not on a disk. It would be nice to see Spears and Muslin UHD as well. This is probably asking a lot, as standard blu-rays calibration disks will work fine on an UHD set. It would be cool to have new patterns that trigger HDR so we can calibrate P3 color space.
boe, kristoffer77, nathan_h and 1 others like this.
Current gear: UN65JS8500 (Main TV), M40-C2(Guestroom TV), I1D3(Using HCFR)
Retired: TH-50PX80U, M55-C2 (Returned)
Duds: 2x XBR-65X930D(bent frame, 3D unwatchable and clouding), P65-C1(3x Yellow banding, dead pixels), UN65JS8500(blue bleed) UN60J6200 (Returned, dead pixels), M65-C1(3x Defective units, all dead pixel and yellow banding)
Retired: TH-50PX80U, M55-C2 (Returned)
Duds: 2x XBR-65X930D(bent frame, 3D unwatchable and clouding), P65-C1(3x Yellow banding, dead pixels), UN65JS8500(blue bleed) UN60J6200 (Returned, dead pixels), M65-C1(3x Defective units, all dead pixel and yellow banding)
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Originally Posted by SnipeUout
I want a UHD calibration disk to go with my new K8500.
I know Joe Kane has a USB UHD essentials but its $100 and not on a disk. It would be nice to see Spears and Muslin UHD as well. This is probably asking a lot, as standard blu-rays calibration disks will work fine on an UHD set. It would be cool to have new patterns that trigger HDR so we can calibrate P3 color space.
Can I ask you a few questions?I know Joe Kane has a USB UHD essentials but its $100 and not on a disk. It would be nice to see Spears and Muslin UHD as well. This is probably asking a lot, as standard blu-rays calibration disks will work fine on an UHD set. It would be cool to have new patterns that trigger HDR so we can calibrate P3 color space.
1. If your TV meets 91.73 % of DCI-P3(According to RTINGS.com) and you calibrate to that spec what do you think will happen when your TV tries to display the other 8.27% of the colors that it can’t display?
2. If you give the TV a fixed calibration based on DCI-P3 and the disc is rendered as REC.2020 are you going to clip all of the colors above DCI-P3?
3. You are supposed to calibrate REC.709 displays to 100 nits. What do you plan to calibrate your HDR display to?
4. Finally, if the display resets “some” of the settings back to their maximum values every time you insert a new disc are you going to perform your calibration every time before you watch a movie? If so how are you going to prevent it from resetting the settings when you remove the calibration disc?
As my questions demonstrate there really isn’t anyway to calibrate an HDR display to a specification unless that display exactly meets that specification. Currently only one HDR display exceeds DCI-P3(Vizio R65) and it exceeds it by so much you wouldn’t want to handicap it by calibrating to a spec so much lower than what it is capable of.
With HDR material we will all be forced to accept that the display knows its capabilities better than we do. There won’t be any HDR calibration discs like we have today. Instead there will be measurement discs. Those discs will demonstrate how much of the DCI-P3 or REC.2020 spectrum your display can show. They will also allow you to prove how dark and how bright your display can get with meters.
However, you won’t really be able to make adjustments based on the measurements you take like we do today. You actually don’t want to change those settings at all.
There is one HUGE fundamental difference in how HDR TVs work and how non HDR TVs work. With non-HDR TVs we calibrate them down to REC.709 because that is what the material is rendered to and all of our displays cover more than 100% of REC.709.
All HDR material is rendered to the REC.2020 specification which far exceeds what any consumer display can show for the foreseeable future. For the first time we have content that exceeds the capabilities of the display. With REC.709 almost all modern displays exceed it. Some even exceed it by a very wide margin.
With HDR displays almost none of them meet even the DCI-P3 spec and none meet REC.2020. Instead the TV uses the HDR headers to figure out what it has to do to render the content to the TV’s maximum capabilities. You wouldn’t want to change that so it renders to a spec lower than its maximum capabilities. You would be throwing away colors that you are paying for but not using.
In addition you can’t calibrate it to a spec that exceeds its capabilities because then you would clip the colors that it cannot display.
Ultimately, everyone will need to accept a new philosophy that the TV manufactures know the capabilities of these TVs better than we do. Everyone will have to trust that the manufactures are reading the HDR headers correctly and displaying the material to the maximum capabilities of the display. There will be measurement discs to help you demonstrate that but there won’t ever be calibration discs to help you calibrate to a specific specification.
Each HDR TV has its own unique set of specifications that it is capable of achieving and if the manufacturer has done everything right then the HDR TV will be capable of selecting the appropriate settings automatically to achieve its maximum possible capabilities with HDR material.
Vizio Display Settings and other Important Information
2016 Vizio P-series settings
2015 Vizio M-series settings
2016 Vizio P-series is definitely 4:4:4 capable
2016 Vizio P-series Best 120 FPS Gaming Display
2016 Vizio P-series settings
2015 Vizio M-series settings
2016 Vizio P-series is definitely 4:4:4 capable
2016 Vizio P-series Best 120 FPS Gaming Display
Last edited by mpgxsvcd; 02-10-2016 at 07:15 AM.
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It probably is not the case but the UHD BDs really should have a calibration feature like Fox once did with DVDs.
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So on a 4k set, we would just set contrast, brightness, color, tint, sharpness?
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Location: Cary, NC
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While a calibration disc should not be necessary for HDR TVs, a set of HDR Blu ray test patterns would be extremely useful for non HDR TV owners. With the 2015 Vizio M-series you have to adjust the settings extensively to remove the green push that the HDR content causes by default. I would also like to be able to accurately set the true black and true white points to match what my TV can display.
Vizio Display Settings and other Important Information
2016 Vizio P-series settings
2015 Vizio M-series settings
2016 Vizio P-series is definitely 4:4:4 capable
2016 Vizio P-series Best 120 FPS Gaming Display
2016 Vizio P-series settings
2015 Vizio M-series settings
2016 Vizio P-series is definitely 4:4:4 capable
2016 Vizio P-series Best 120 FPS Gaming Display
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Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd
Can I ask you a few questions?
As my questions demonstrate there really isn’t anyway to calibrate an HDR display to a specification unless that display exactly meets that specification. Currently only one HDR display exceeds DCI-P3(Vizio R65) and it exceeds it by so much you wouldn’t want to handicap it by calibrating to a spec so much lower than what it is capable of.
With HDR material we will all be forced to accept that the display knows its capabilities better than we do. There won’t be any HDR calibration discs like we have today. Instead there will be measurement discs. Those discs will demonstrate how much of the DCI-P3 or REC.2020 spectrum your display can show. They will also allow you to prove how dark and how bright your display can get with meters.
However, you won’t really be able to make adjustments based on the measurements you take like we do today. You actually don’t want to change those settings at all.
There is one HUGE fundamental difference in how HDR TVs work and how non HDR TVs work. With non-HDR TVs we calibrate them down to REC.709 because that is what the material is rendered to and all of our displays cover more than 100% of REC.709.
All HDR material is rendered to the REC.2020 specification which far exceeds what any consumer display can show for the foreseeable future. For the first time we have content that exceeds the capabilities of the display. With REC.709 almost all modern displays exceed it. Some even exceed it by a very wide margin.
With HDR displays almost none of them meet even the DCI-P3 spec and none meet REC.2020. Instead the TV uses the HDR headers to figure out what it has to do to render the content to the TV’s maximum capabilities. You wouldn’t want to change that so it renders to a spec lower than its maximum capabilities. You would be throwing away colors that you are paying for but not using.
In addition you can’t calibrate it to a spec that exceeds its capabilities because then you would clip the colors that it cannot display.
Ultimately, everyone will need to accept a new philosophy that the TV manufactures know the capabilities of these TVs better than we do. Everyone will have to trust that the manufactures are reading the HDR headers correctly and displaying the material to the maximum capabilities of the display. There will be measurement discs to help you demonstrate that but there won’t ever be calibration discs to help you calibrate to a specific specification.
Each HDR TV has its own unique set of specifications that it is capable of achieving and if the manufacturer has done everything right then the HDR TV will be capable of selecting the appropriate settings automatically to achieve its maximum possible capabilities with HDR material.
while I agree with most of your points I feel differently about others. Manufactures have proven time and again that they cannot deliver a set with proper greyscale that has errors consistently below the visible threshold. HDR or SDR I believe a greyscale calibration will still be essential. Color settings on MOST high end FullHD SDR sets need little adjustment these days once you've selected the proper color temperature BUT that isn't always true. Calibrating color will have little to do with if the set can fully reproduce DCI or Rec2020 and more about if the set is properly tracking the colors up to its own high end and not adding to much yellow into green or being over saturated at different stimulus levels. The last two sets I calibrated color using 75% saturation for rec 709 and checked sweeps after. This method should in theory be possible with a set that doesn't reach 100% DCI or 2020 since most calibration software will use a 75% and 100% white reading to set a base line. Im unsure at this point if gamma will need adjustment but I can't think that its just a case of setting your gamma control to a neutral point and as you say 'trusting the manufacture' to get it right. The exact process for measuring and calibrating HDR gamma (it shouldn't be called gamma *EOTF*) could certainly be much different than SDR. Selecting the neutral position may be the right choice but without patterns and measurement how can one be certain? Not to mention EOTF (once known as gamma) in HDR display systems will not be as grey as SDR. What I mean is that if you want to have an accurate experience there will be no guessing if its 2.2, 2.4 bt1886 etc. There will be one accurate value for each set. Not to mention I believe gamma and EOTF to be the single most important adjustment for someone to get right in order to maximize PQ.As my questions demonstrate there really isn’t anyway to calibrate an HDR display to a specification unless that display exactly meets that specification. Currently only one HDR display exceeds DCI-P3(Vizio R65) and it exceeds it by so much you wouldn’t want to handicap it by calibrating to a spec so much lower than what it is capable of.
With HDR material we will all be forced to accept that the display knows its capabilities better than we do. There won’t be any HDR calibration discs like we have today. Instead there will be measurement discs. Those discs will demonstrate how much of the DCI-P3 or REC.2020 spectrum your display can show. They will also allow you to prove how dark and how bright your display can get with meters.
However, you won’t really be able to make adjustments based on the measurements you take like we do today. You actually don’t want to change those settings at all.
There is one HUGE fundamental difference in how HDR TVs work and how non HDR TVs work. With non-HDR TVs we calibrate them down to REC.709 because that is what the material is rendered to and all of our displays cover more than 100% of REC.709.
All HDR material is rendered to the REC.2020 specification which far exceeds what any consumer display can show for the foreseeable future. For the first time we have content that exceeds the capabilities of the display. With REC.709 almost all modern displays exceed it. Some even exceed it by a very wide margin.
With HDR displays almost none of them meet even the DCI-P3 spec and none meet REC.2020. Instead the TV uses the HDR headers to figure out what it has to do to render the content to the TV’s maximum capabilities. You wouldn’t want to change that so it renders to a spec lower than its maximum capabilities. You would be throwing away colors that you are paying for but not using.
In addition you can’t calibrate it to a spec that exceeds its capabilities because then you would clip the colors that it cannot display.
Ultimately, everyone will need to accept a new philosophy that the TV manufactures know the capabilities of these TVs better than we do. Everyone will have to trust that the manufactures are reading the HDR headers correctly and displaying the material to the maximum capabilities of the display. There will be measurement discs to help you demonstrate that but there won’t ever be calibration discs to help you calibrate to a specific specification.
Each HDR TV has its own unique set of specifications that it is capable of achieving and if the manufacturer has done everything right then the HDR TV will be capable of selecting the appropriate settings automatically to achieve its maximum possible capabilities with HDR material.
My real concern is that the adjustment controls on the HDR capable sets from 2015 and 2016 are not going to behave in a way necessary to get an 'accurate' HDR picture. How long did consumers suffer with rec709 sets without greyscale adjustments and even others that had adjustments but didn't function well enough to bring the picture to acceptable levels of accuracy.
I agree, and do also believe that HDR will require less adjustment. At least until we have sets with extra headroom in light output and color that will need to be tuned down(this may also never happen). https://www.smpte.org/sites/default/..-Ecosystem.pdf start on page 25 the samsung page is interesting refers to power consumption and APL. Damn california energy laws
I would love to see the day when everyone can buy a TV, set it to movie and KNOW they are getting the most accurate picture that set can deliver but I'm just to much or a realist to think HDR will usher in that kind or world. I do think there are more questions than answers right now. Hopefully soon industry leads like Spears and Munsil and Spectracal can start answering them in a way we can all understand. I don't think UltraHD is going to cause the need for calibration to go the way of the Dodo. Last edited by devon_djh; 02-22-2016 at 08:14 AM.
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Spotted a sspears post in the LCD Display forum that a UHD Blu-ray test/calibration disc might not be available until 2017 (Spears-Munsil). Can think of many tests I'd like to see, including some that determine how good the upconversion from non-4k images is between displays. Motion resolution test patterns, available online now, could be useful. That's in addition to all the test patterns already standard. -- John
nathan_h, Phantom Stranger and JaguarCRO like this.
Last edited by John Mason; 03-12-2016 at 06:06 AM. Reason: typos
post #8 of 20Old03-26-2016, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
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As a community we should create AVS UHD 2020 the successor to AVS HD 709.
Would require:
-UHD Resolution
-10-bit signal
-Meta data required to drive the display into HDR-10 and DV
Would require:
-UHD Resolution
-10-bit signal
-Meta data required to drive the display into HDR-10 and DV
sage11x, richardsim7, zielin and 1 others like this.
Current gear: UN65JS8500 (Main TV), M40-C2(Guestroom TV), I1D3(Using HCFR)
Retired: TH-50PX80U, M55-C2 (Returned)
Duds: 2x XBR-65X930D(bent frame, 3D unwatchable and clouding), P65-C1(3x Yellow banding, dead pixels), UN65JS8500(blue bleed) UN60J6200 (Returned, dead pixels), M65-C1(3x Defective units, all dead pixel and yellow banding)
Retired: TH-50PX80U, M55-C2 (Returned)
Duds: 2x XBR-65X930D(bent frame, 3D unwatchable and clouding), P65-C1(3x Yellow banding, dead pixels), UN65JS8500(blue bleed) UN60J6200 (Returned, dead pixels), M65-C1(3x Defective units, all dead pixel and yellow banding)
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Originally Posted by John Mason
Motion resolution test patterns, available online now, could be useful. That's in addition to all the test patterns already standard. -- John
Where we can download motion resolution tests? AVS Forum Special Member
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Originally Posted by ultrasilent
I came across lots of them with a Google search. Believe some are 1080p, as well as 4k. Some HD-only calibration software includes motion tests (costlier versions). -- Johnhttps://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei..est%20patterns
Also. a bit off query, see sspears' excerpt re current/upcoming scaling in his co-developed calibration disc, which AFAIK doesn't have motion rez test in 1080p Vol II, nor my Vol 1 version.
Last edited by John Mason; 03-27-2016 at 08:44 AM. Reason: add-on
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The Sony UHD disks have hidden test patterns. I may buy one just for that feature.
My calibrator got rec 2020 nailed in the right way, ie, saturation out to p3 tracks correctly.
But gamma is dicey since different studios use different standards so far. And having patterns that let one see where contrast should be is wuite useful.
My calibrator got rec 2020 nailed in the right way, ie, saturation out to p3 tracks correctly.
But gamma is dicey since different studios use different standards so far. And having patterns that let one see where contrast should be is wuite useful.
My current setup.
Recommended podcasts: The Next Picture Show, /filmcast, AV Rant.
2017 LG OLED and JVC RS4/5/600 basics. (Or custom HDR curves for JVC's.)
Biased (but nice)
Location: Kinnelon, NJ
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Hello.
Our company publishes DVE (including the DVE UHD version on USB).
I openly admit that we priced DVE UHD v0.9 as a professional product because we wanted it to appeal to those making hardware and testing out encoding. We put it out so that we could put the patterns in their hands quickly. In that regard, it's a bit like DVE Pro or the original DVE HD (on HD DVD). And, of course, the USB was released long before UHD Blu-ray, so we didn't really have many options.
While other versions are currently in the works, it has been suggested that we create a version of the DVE UHD thumb drive without the files that are not usable on a TV (for example, those .exr files are just not going to play on a consumer display circa 2016 -- need to qualify that with a date because I'm sure that all future TV's will tear right through those .exr files ). If we did this for around the price of the discs, or perhaps even less (allowing for upgrade pricing as has been done before with DVE), would that be at all useful to you?
BTW, we're strongly considering including a USB version with the other formats simply because it's incredibly flexible and the install base is already there. Any Smart TV can play it as can virtually any 4K media playing device. The lack of DRM also allows you to use it in more ways (and all without violating DMCA). Other formats are pretty much all going to require DRM. While there are obviously ways to get around that, it's nice to not have to -- especially in a professional environment.
Our company publishes DVE (including the DVE UHD version on USB).
I openly admit that we priced DVE UHD v0.9 as a professional product because we wanted it to appeal to those making hardware and testing out encoding. We put it out so that we could put the patterns in their hands quickly. In that regard, it's a bit like DVE Pro or the original DVE HD (on HD DVD). And, of course, the USB was released long before UHD Blu-ray, so we didn't really have many options.
While other versions are currently in the works, it has been suggested that we create a version of the DVE UHD thumb drive without the files that are not usable on a TV (for example, those .exr files are just not going to play on a consumer display circa 2016 -- need to qualify that with a date because I'm sure that all future TV's will tear right through those .exr files ). If we did this for around the price of the discs, or perhaps even less (allowing for upgrade pricing as has been done before with DVE), would that be at all useful to you?
BTW, we're strongly considering including a USB version with the other formats simply because it's incredibly flexible and the install base is already there. Any Smart TV can play it as can virtually any 4K media playing device. The lack of DRM also allows you to use it in more ways (and all without violating DMCA). Other formats are pretty much all going to require DRM. While there are obviously ways to get around that, it's nice to not have to -- especially in a professional environment.
Jason Rosenfeld
Scenic Labs, LLC
Publisher of Spears & Munsil Benchmark UHD HDR Benchmark.
Maker of The ISF-certified MediaLight 6500K Bias Lighting System
Scenic Labs, LLC
Publisher of Spears & Munsil Benchmark UHD HDR Benchmark.
Maker of The ISF-certified MediaLight 6500K Bias Lighting System
AVS Forum Special Member
Location: Studio City, CA
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
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Originally Posted by Scenic Labs
Hello.
Our company publishes DVE (including the DVE UHD version on USB).
I openly admit that we priced DVE UHD v0.9 as a professional product because we wanted it to appeal to those making hardware and testing out encoding. We put it out so that we could put the patterns in their hands quickly. In that regard, it's a bit like DVE Pro or the original DVE HD (on HD DVD). And, of course, the USB was released long before UHD Blu-ray, so we didn't really have many options.
While other versions are currently in the works, it has been suggested that we create a version of the DVE UHD thumb drive without the files that are not usable on a TV (for example, those .exr files are just not going to play on a consumer display circa 2016 -- need to qualify that with a date because I'm sure that all future TV's will tear right through those .exr files ). If we did this for around the price of the discs, or perhaps even less (allowing for upgrade pricing as has been done before with DVE), would that be at all useful to you?
BTW, we're strongly considering including a USB version with the other formats simply because it's incredibly flexible and the install base is already there. Any Smart TV can play it as can virtually any 4K media playing device. The lack of DRM also allows you to use it in more ways (and all without violating DMCA). Other formats are pretty much all going to require DRM. While there are obviously ways to get around that, it's nice to not have to -- especially in a professional environment.
Jason,Our company publishes DVE (including the DVE UHD version on USB).
I openly admit that we priced DVE UHD v0.9 as a professional product because we wanted it to appeal to those making hardware and testing out encoding. We put it out so that we could put the patterns in their hands quickly. In that regard, it's a bit like DVE Pro or the original DVE HD (on HD DVD). And, of course, the USB was released long before UHD Blu-ray, so we didn't really have many options.
While other versions are currently in the works, it has been suggested that we create a version of the DVE UHD thumb drive without the files that are not usable on a TV (for example, those .exr files are just not going to play on a consumer display circa 2016 -- need to qualify that with a date because I'm sure that all future TV's will tear right through those .exr files ). If we did this for around the price of the discs, or perhaps even less (allowing for upgrade pricing as has been done before with DVE), would that be at all useful to you?
BTW, we're strongly considering including a USB version with the other formats simply because it's incredibly flexible and the install base is already there. Any Smart TV can play it as can virtually any 4K media playing device. The lack of DRM also allows you to use it in more ways (and all without violating DMCA). Other formats are pretty much all going to require DRM. While there are obviously ways to get around that, it's nice to not have to -- especially in a professional environment.
Thanks for responding, a 'less professional' thumb drive version would be ideal for myself and I'd prefer that to a disc based program any day.
Thanks.
Onkyo TX-NR807
Polk LSi15, Polk LSiC, Polk LSiF/X, Velodyne HGS12
Optoma HD80 on 106' Elite Aeon Cine grey, Samsung Q6FN (2018)
Xbox One X, Samsung UH750 Quantum Dot 28' UHD monitor
Polk LSi15, Polk LSiC, Polk LSiF/X, Velodyne HGS12
Optoma HD80 on 106' Elite Aeon Cine grey, Samsung Q6FN (2018)
Xbox One X, Samsung UH750 Quantum Dot 28' UHD monitor
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Like so many things re: UHD/HDR/WCG, I'm just sitting back waiting to see how this all plays out. I have a Samsung JS8500, but haven't invested in a UHD BD player yet. That, plus the fact that very little is available on streaming, makes me unconcerned right now with getting my TV set up well with the new formats.
Eventually, that will change. Having some way to get my picture settings dialed in in a cost-effective, fairly simple way would be nice. Heck, I can get my TV set up pretty well already with a couple of test patterns and the blue-only mode on it. If there can be some equivalent for HDR/WCG, I'd be very grateful. I have a feeling it's not that easy any more, though.
Eventually, that will change. Having some way to get my picture settings dialed in in a cost-effective, fairly simple way would be nice. Heck, I can get my TV set up pretty well already with a couple of test patterns and the blue-only mode on it. If there can be some equivalent for HDR/WCG, I'd be very grateful. I have a feeling it's not that easy any more, though.
---
Striving to live life in high dynamic range and ultra high definition.
Samsung UN65JS8500 / Denon AVR-X4000 / 5.1 w/ Mixed Speakers / Oppo UDP-203 / TiVo Premiere XL / Apple TV (3rd gen) / Fire TV (1st gen) / Xbox 360 R2-D2 Edition
KC area / Father of 4 / Husband / Video Producer / Skeptic
Striving to live life in high dynamic range and ultra high definition.
Samsung UN65JS8500 / Denon AVR-X4000 / 5.1 w/ Mixed Speakers / Oppo UDP-203 / TiVo Premiere XL / Apple TV (3rd gen) / Fire TV (1st gen) / Xbox 360 R2-D2 Edition
KC area / Father of 4 / Husband / Video Producer / Skeptic
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Location: Selma, Alabama, USA
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I agree with CosmoNut. Although it may not be simple to do, some sort of HDR test patterns or tests are needed to call out TV manufactures on their marketing push. Saying your set is 'Super-Duper' HDR with Dolby Vision included is one thing, having an in spec (whatever that is) peak whiteness and low black output levels at the same time is another. I'm just saying (from what I've been reading recently on AVS Forums); for now, not all HDR across all makes and models is created equal. Better or any UHD test patterns would benefit consumers in making more informed buying decisions and hopefully raise the quality bar on the manufacturing side. Pie in the sky wishful thinking but I can dream.
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Originally Posted by Scenic Labs
Hello.
Our company publishes DVE (including the DVE UHD version on USB).
I openly admit that we priced DVE UHD v0.9 as a professional product because we wanted it to appeal to those making hardware and testing out encoding. We put it out so that we could put the patterns in their hands quickly. In that regard, it's a bit like DVE Pro or the original DVE HD (on HD DVD). And, of course, the USB was released long before UHD Blu-ray, so we didn't really have many options.
While other versions are currently in the works, it has been suggested that we create a version of the DVE UHD thumb drive without the files that are not usable on a TV (for example, those .exr files are just not going to play on a consumer display circa 2016 -- need to qualify that with a date because I'm sure that all future TV's will tear right through those .exr files ). If we did this for around the price of the discs, or perhaps even less (allowing for upgrade pricing as has been done before with DVE), would that be at all useful to you?
BTW, we're strongly considering including a USB version with the other formats simply because it's incredibly flexible and the install base is already there. Any Smart TV can play it as can virtually any 4K media playing device. The lack of DRM also allows you to use it in more ways (and all without violating DMCA). Other formats are pretty much all going to require DRM. While there are obviously ways to get around that, it's nice to not have to -- especially in a professional environment.
So, I do intend on purchasing the product soon, but wanted to ask of you something I have not seen on the multitude of discs on the market. That is the inclusion of 10-point saturation and 10-point luminance for each standard out there (P3, 709, and 2020). I understand it greatly increases the data requirements and difficulty, but I do prefer working with more points to better hone the color space than just the 0%, 25%, 50%, 75%, 100%. It also would allow for me to adjust settings for my pattern generator software to match a reference easier to be assured I can set it to more quickly calibrate the display and not go back to the drawing board when it does not accurately match a reference disc, or rather gives me the option of doing all calibration on the disc, or thumb drive in this case. Our company publishes DVE (including the DVE UHD version on USB).
I openly admit that we priced DVE UHD v0.9 as a professional product because we wanted it to appeal to those making hardware and testing out encoding. We put it out so that we could put the patterns in their hands quickly. In that regard, it's a bit like DVE Pro or the original DVE HD (on HD DVD). And, of course, the USB was released long before UHD Blu-ray, so we didn't really have many options.
While other versions are currently in the works, it has been suggested that we create a version of the DVE UHD thumb drive without the files that are not usable on a TV (for example, those .exr files are just not going to play on a consumer display circa 2016 -- need to qualify that with a date because I'm sure that all future TV's will tear right through those .exr files ). If we did this for around the price of the discs, or perhaps even less (allowing for upgrade pricing as has been done before with DVE), would that be at all useful to you?
BTW, we're strongly considering including a USB version with the other formats simply because it's incredibly flexible and the install base is already there. Any Smart TV can play it as can virtually any 4K media playing device. The lack of DRM also allows you to use it in more ways (and all without violating DMCA). Other formats are pretty much all going to require DRM. While there are obviously ways to get around that, it's nice to not have to -- especially in a professional environment.
Joe Kane's Digital Video Essentials
In addition, how do you arrange for updates for prior purchasers in order for them to receive the newer content as more content is added?
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There is a thread on a UHD/HDR test set (also intended for USB):
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di..-patterns.html
I don't know whether calibrations for a USB source (on a Samsung UBD-K8500) will apply equally to a UHD BD. I have read no claims one way or the other.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di..-patterns.html
I don't know whether calibrations for a USB source (on a Samsung UBD-K8500) will apply equally to a UHD BD. I have read no claims one way or the other.
Biased (but nice)
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Hi, AJC9988-
There have been two updates since UHD v.9 was offered. Since we are the only site offering the USB, we’ve automatically sent download links when new content was added. And as changes have been made, they've been added to the USB as well, so the versions shipped out are the most current.
The best way to accomplish what you are trying to do with the current USB version is to use a computer with an RGB output and access the .exr test patterns in Resolve.
JKP will be issuing some updates shortly. However, those updates will be delivered differently from previous updates. They will be included under the original purchase price. I’ll share those details as soon as I can. From our perspective, v .9 was always the pre-release version made necessary by the lack (at the time) of UHD Blu-ray.
In the meantime, per Joe Kane, the upcoming test and demonstration materials will be rec.709 and P3 delivered in a 2020 carrier (as specified in HDR10). Not a lot of BT.2020 displays available at the moment (none, I’m pretty sure). However, that's one of the reasons why there will likely be updates (and reasonable upgrade pricing) as different HDR technologies prevail in the market.
There have been two updates since UHD v.9 was offered. Since we are the only site offering the USB, we’ve automatically sent download links when new content was added. And as changes have been made, they've been added to the USB as well, so the versions shipped out are the most current.
The best way to accomplish what you are trying to do with the current USB version is to use a computer with an RGB output and access the .exr test patterns in Resolve.
JKP will be issuing some updates shortly. However, those updates will be delivered differently from previous updates. They will be included under the original purchase price. I’ll share those details as soon as I can. From our perspective, v .9 was always the pre-release version made necessary by the lack (at the time) of UHD Blu-ray.
In the meantime, per Joe Kane, the upcoming test and demonstration materials will be rec.709 and P3 delivered in a 2020 carrier (as specified in HDR10). Not a lot of BT.2020 displays available at the moment (none, I’m pretty sure). However, that's one of the reasons why there will likely be updates (and reasonable upgrade pricing) as different HDR technologies prevail in the market.
Jason Rosenfeld
Scenic Labs, LLC
Publisher of Spears & Munsil Benchmark UHD HDR Benchmark.
Maker of The ISF-certified MediaLight 6500K Bias Lighting System
Scenic Labs, LLC
Publisher of Spears & Munsil Benchmark UHD HDR Benchmark.
Maker of The ISF-certified MediaLight 6500K Bias Lighting System
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Originally Posted by Scenic Labs
Hi, AJC9988-
There have been two updates since UHD v.9 was offered. Since we are the only site offering the USB, we’ve automatically sent download links when new content was added. And as changes have been made, they've been added to the USB as well, so the versions shipped out are the most current.
The best way to accomplish what you are trying to do with the current USB version is to use a computer with an RGB output and access the .exr test patterns in Resolve.
JKP will be issuing some updates shortly. However, those updates will be delivered differently from previous updates. They will be included under the original purchase price. I’ll share those details as soon as I can. From our perspective, v .9 was always the pre-release version made necessary by the lack (at the time) of UHD Blu-ray.
In the meantime, per Joe Kane, the upcoming test and demonstration materials will be rec.709 and P3 delivered in a 2020 carrier (as specified in HDR10). Not a lot of BT.2020 displays available at the moment (none, I’m pretty sure). However, that's one of the reasons why there will likely be updates (and reasonable upgrade pricing) as different HDR technologies prevail in the market.
That sounds wonderful! And I know there are ZERO BT.2020 displays out yet. But a man can dream! Just like a man can dream of them putting in two menus for color calibration, one for the standard (set to rec.709) and one for the HDR settings (since the higher end retail displays can do over 90% P3) which deserve their own set of calibration.. just something I'd like to see in the future if you have anyone's ear that may be bent..There have been two updates since UHD v.9 was offered. Since we are the only site offering the USB, we’ve automatically sent download links when new content was added. And as changes have been made, they've been added to the USB as well, so the versions shipped out are the most current.
The best way to accomplish what you are trying to do with the current USB version is to use a computer with an RGB output and access the .exr test patterns in Resolve.
JKP will be issuing some updates shortly. However, those updates will be delivered differently from previous updates. They will be included under the original purchase price. I’ll share those details as soon as I can. From our perspective, v .9 was always the pre-release version made necessary by the lack (at the time) of UHD Blu-ray.
In the meantime, per Joe Kane, the upcoming test and demonstration materials will be rec.709 and P3 delivered in a 2020 carrier (as specified in HDR10). Not a lot of BT.2020 displays available at the moment (none, I’m pretty sure). However, that's one of the reasons why there will likely be updates (and reasonable upgrade pricing) as different HDR technologies prevail in the market.
That eases my mind and I'll be making my purchase shortly.
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I have the Disney WOW and REC 709 AV discs. While they were a nice reference tool for 1080P, is there anything out there yet that can help with 4K and HDR ?
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